Kipling, Europe and Brexit

[Arnie]

Cheers Bill.
It was a tour bus guide who was telling the bus passengers, famous building on the tour.

Arnie.

[Hawk195]

Hi Bill

Re The EU border in Ireland it will cost a fortune in men and materials to seal the border. Or they could put up a half mile killing ground either side of the 40 foot fence they would have to put up. This would be a great way to bring in people through NI no passport checks once they are over the internal border. I bet that people smugglers are already planning routes. either way it will cost a fortune. Bill I looked at Google for the route we took in 67 and it looked like this: Off Friedrick strasse onto Georgen strasse over the canal turn right at new build straight down on Am Lustgarten
is the nearest I can get. But it does not make sense. I will have to find an old map of the area to see if that does. The problem is the barracks immediately we turned to the right down a street, with the canal to our right and across the the canal was the bldgs. which had a load of soldiers at the windows shouting and waving at us. Chapter 3 to follow.

Tony

[Bill Bentley]

Hi Tony,

I understood you had crossed the canal within the railway station complex, so you would have come out on Schiffbauer Damm, NOT Georgean Str. Right on Schiffbauer Damm to the bridge, Marschall Brücke, cross it, then left again along the canal, back on the other side, along Kupfergraben. This in fact does lead back to Georgean Str., as you say by the Lust Garden. By coincidence only yards away from Arnies point in question. We'll get there ...

Yes, Ireland will be a problem ! I can't imagine that anybody wants to go back to the 60's - 90's. Thirty years of madness. So what do we do ? The only solution that I can see is to let N.I. remain as part of Ireland and in the EU and create a boarder in the water. The south are playing their trump card here, they think ... but N.I., as far as I am aware, has always been a drain upon the GB purse. We only keep it for imagined reasons of security, i.e. because Hitler wanted to build submarine bases there to cut off the Atlantic supply boats from the USA.

So, invite all of the N.I. paddy's to move to GB 'give them land to compensate them', my God the government have stolen enough common land from the people and the Queen and her clan have more than they can manage. This way we will have enough skilled workers, class them as EU immigrants, then our quota will be filled at the same time and we won't have to take anyone else in, ha !! Sell the land of N.I. to the southern Paddy's and ANY OTHER DESIRABLE EU IMMIGRANTS, who want it, to cover the cost of us taking on the northern paddy's AND with the excess money pay off the EU Brexit bill, job done ! We shall see.

[27]

Bill.

This is what Dick Whitelock put on facebook with reference to the Irish border problem.

So what about the super huge white elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring:
That is that EU law clearly states that an EU country with an external border MUST set up custom checks which in effect means that the Republic of Ireland has to set up custom checks, the UK could decide to do so or not as they choose but the ROI is not in a position to choose.
The UK negotiators should be asking the ROI (EU) what are you going to do ?, when you let us know we will be in a position to tell you what we intend to do, all you hear from the bbc (remoaner HQ) is that the UK has to make all the decisions and then disclose them only for the EU to repeat time and time again "not good enough", hope preparations for walking away are going well.


27,

[Bill Bentley]

27, thanks for Dicks view,

If he is right, and I think he might be, of course the ROI and the EU should have to carry the can; well spotted Dick.

As far as I can tell the EU do not want an agreement as that would encourage others to leave, because the peoples of every member country do not want to be bound by Brussels. It is only the ideological (want to be) elite who want to follow this path. What the people want is a treaty which avoids, indeed prevents war and allows good trading relations. Why should we the people want 'the free movement of peoples' to take away our own jobs ? The problem is that our own system has always failed to train our people for the future, that's why most unemployed people can't fill the gaps. That and a clear lack of incentive, fair pay and conditions to start with.

If there ever were a real shortage of qualified workers we could still let suitably qualified foreigners come, on a fixed term visa - tied to the job. For instance a 3 or 6 month visa for seasonal farm helpers, a 3 year visa for nurses, a five year visa for doctors, with the chance of extending the visa if the job is still available. After 10 years they could apply for citizenship and only then become eligible for social security benefits. When a visa expires, if they are no longer required, they MUST go home ! Any children born to parents on a visa keep the nationality of the parents and so leave with their parents; don't want to splitting up families do we. This is not meant to be being nasty to them, after all they have done, but we should also think of their own country and their shortage of farm workers, nurses and doctors. It is also their duty to help their own citizens who paid for their education. It is pretty mean of us stealing their best, how can their countries ever develop ?

None of this prevents people traveling anywhere on holiday, we all go to other none EU countries, even those who consider us to be ALIENS (the USA) let us in to spend our money, so where's the problem ? So you would have to apply for a visa and bloody right too, that would stop a lot of undesirables just turning up and causing trouble or abusing the National Health Service. I'll keep this short: I would only issue a visa when the applicant has a medical certificate confirming good health AND medical insurance for the duration of the visa. That would save the NHS quite a lot of millions of pounds and and free up time to treat our own needy !

Perhaps we should all actively pass Dicks idea around until our own genius politicians wake up and push the ball back into the EU's court ...

[Arnie]

Just a quick one guys, back in 1920's the British could have, and no doubt would have gladly, said goodbye to NI but up rose the big nigger(Paddy) in the woodpile, the Protestants. Paisley wasn't preaching to himself he had a huge following, and they were not called LOYALISTS for nothing. In the late 60's when the NICRA marches started in NI the Government of the day would have done it too but it was the same fear of the consequences that would have stopped it.
So Queen Elizabeth, not ERII but ERI, who caused the problem that you are debating about. You have no idea how passionate these people are about staying part of UK. Paisley's battlecry is still valid today, "I WILL NEVER BE RULED BY ROME". To give you some idea about the passion, consider this, in my manor in 72/73 there was a small village called Coagh, between Cookstown and my 'Indian' country of an area called the Ardboe. In that town there was one pub, used by all. Every night there was music on, even if it was only a singer with his/her guitar. At the end of the night he or she or they played the National Anthem and everybody had to stand rigidly at attention and join in the singing. Even me, and they knew I was in the Army and working with police, had to do it. Had I not stood to attention the least I would have got would have been a severe beating. God knows what would have happened to someone they didn't know. Another example of this passion, I was out drinking with a Reserve Constable (the old B Specials) at the Killymoon Golf Club after he had had a successful day at the races. He had had too much to drink and was asleep with his head on the table. Suddenly he sat bolt upright and smashed his fist on the table and bellowed, "Why should I be ruled by these Fenian bastards?" We hadn't been talking religion or politics at all, but he must have dreaming about it.
Very easy to ask or request that they 'relocate' to the old country, but good luck with that.
Incidentally there have been customs post along the ROI/NI border since the ROI Civil War in the 20's. Surely you all would have heard of the incident when the IRA, in the early 70's blew up Newry Customs Post. The Customs men swore two men ushered them out while they placed the bomb, which turned into a "home run". When they collected all the pieces, the customs men had to change their story because they found among the pieces 2 penises and one vagina.

Arnie

[Hawk195]

Arnie

The customs points are not the problem, there are so many unofficial crossings that it is impossible to man them all.
Whilst I was over there we took an Heli to patrol the area around silverbridge only to see men herding their pigs across the border into another truck. So even the customs who fully knew the area could not stop them crossing.

[Bill Bentley]

Tough topic lads,

we all did our bit back then and so know the ins and outs of trying to man that boarder. But there has to be a solution and if the boarder moves into the sea, which is the only other realistic option, the North is effectively reunited with the South. So the loyalists would be clever to move to GB (note I am not using the term UK) before they get overrun. Being British does not guarantee anybody a specific place to live. The island of Ireland is further away from GB than mainland Europe is, the North is nothing less than a colony, if the loyalists were black we would have had to give them their independence decades ago. Either we deal with the problem once and for all or it will go on until we do eventually allow the island to be reunited. How much blood would that cost us ? I doubt that the Northern paddy's would resort to bombing public places in GB like their Southern Paddy brethren did.

Thought, there is one other option, that Northern Ireland becomes an independent republic ...

They could do what they want with their boarder, join the EU or trade with everyone on WTO rules. Or, as Dick wrote, it will be up to the EU and the Southern Paddy's to man their boarder
.

[john kerwin]

why not give it to Mr Trump ? . And make it the 51st state, After all the irish in the U.S far outnumber those who
live in Ireland.
Then old Don could one of his walls

[Arnie]

Hi Yall,

one question, sorry Bill, who is this boarder everybody talks about? What rent does he/they pay to the landlady in this B&B, or hotel called Northern Ireland?
I used to be a FINCO on the Sino/Hong Kong border. The only boarders we had there were the poor refugees who risked life and limb to get across the border, and were usually found breaking into our border posts and then becoming illegal boarders because they were starving and broke into our outposts to steal some food.

Arnie

[Bill Bentley]

Hi Arnie,

don't know why you are blushing, it should be me, thanks for the correction ! I suppose I could put it down to having lived abroad for almost 30 years - in a none english speaking country, but it's more likely to be the fact that I left school at 14, having skipped many of the school lessons for several years anyway, because I had been working since I was eight years old. Somebody had to bring cash home and my old man was out of work. He actually got a job again because I got run over by my employer, all my fault and everything turned out just fine in the end.

My first attempt at being self-employed was during the great dustbin strike in the '60's. (I was born in '55). I bought a wheelbarrow and took peoples rubbish away, only to a free building plot a few hundred yards away, where the rubbish grew into mountains and was utterly rat ridden. Bought myself an air-rifle and shot countless rats, there and down at Blue Bell Woods, got a tanner a tail from the town hall ! When nobody would pay me to remove their rubbish I used the wheelbarrow to collect coal, which had fallen off the old steamers, from the railway lines. Or as transport for my tools, when gardening for others and of course to carry Guy Fawkes to and from our 'penny for the Guy' begging sessions.

The good old days eh !

Junior Leaders, (which I joined at 15 on the advice of a Judge ... "if I see you again you'll go down, join the army, it'll make a man of you and keep you out of trouble", he said) was like what I sort of imagined a package holiday, which I had never been on, would be like, gave me my education such as it is. All through JL's and until I left the army for the first time (1979) I sent money home so that my many siblings might have a better start. Never looked back since, perhaps I should, but, then again, better keep an eye up front, and listen out for the laggers, screaming when the dogs catch up with them.

Thanks again, I'm now cleverer than I was yesterday ... (just hope I can remember that tomorrow).

Going back to a previous comment of yours, flack towers and brothels. I suppose that your having been in the Int Corps gives you more insight than most. Does that mean that you have seen some, most, all of these brothels from the inside ? Wow, I bet you get more flack than Hitler ever got, from Brenda !
.
.

[Hawk195]

Christ Bill
What a childhood you had, but you must have some sort of a strong person( somewhat similar to andy mcnab.) But you have come through it I would say stronger. I would think that about 66% of the young lads who join up have had a bad start which the army changed. Brexit on the news says the southern Government will be back by the EU. the Irish people want an open border. The next move could be the Irish will have to go through Customs every time they come to or go from any Port or Airport in the UK

Tony

[Arnie]

Hi Bill and Y'all,

had some adventures in seedy establishments over my time in the Army, usually in foreign parts. Berlin was my happiest time though. No Brenda was not involved at all, although I had a long suffering wife before her. I met Brenda only after I had left the army.
As some of you may know I was promoted WO 2 shortly after getting to Berlin in 1976, and was appointed CSM. So you could say I contributed to the depravity of some young NCO's in the Corps.
About the knowledge of brothels and sex bars in Berlin I have to confess this knowledge usually only applied to the British Sector. It was knowledge the Staff at Berlin Field Force took advantage of at times. Got numerous calls from them to guide various members 'safely' round some of them. G 3 Int (major) called me once and asked me if I would escort the Chief of Staff around, on expenses of course. Would I take some of my men with us for added protection.
It was on this occasion that I asked him "Why me?" His reply staggered me. "Becasuse when one thinks of the low life in Berlin one thinks of Sergeant Major Greenwood". Don't know whether I was flattered or not. Anyway we took
him to an establishment at 22 Mommsen Str, (still there, cos its still blurred on Google Earth) among many others in 'Stutty' Platz. This Sex Bar come brothel finished up the first act of the show with about 6 girls circulating round indicating to the clientele to remove one item of their costumes. He was sitting immediately on my right and the girls were going round in an anti-clockwise direction. I thought I would give him some idea of what was expected of him by taking off her bra, one of the only two items she had left. She then moved to him and all he did was run his fingers up and down her back. Won't tell you what went through my mind but it was not complimentary.
Have quietened down, was going to say 'somewhat' lately, but the word completely covers it better. I am a pensioner you know.
You will have to wait for the next installment!!! Ah the memories

Arnie

[Bill Bentley]

Hi Tony,

I'm certain that you are right about that: the majority of lads and lasses who join the armed forces have had a less than favourable childhood, after all, who, that has all the advantages, would choose to rough it and risk their lives ? Not the Rupert's, they joined for very different reasons, 99% of them anyway.

Interesting comparison: me and aka McNab. I was chatting with him at an event, where he and three more of us were guests of honour, about a former 2 Para mate of mine who was killed on his B2Z operation. His only advice was to read his book, which I still have not done ! aka McNab has chosen fame and fortune, which has opened many doors for him but also cost him a lot of friends, hard choices ! People like him and me don't make friends easily and I have chosen to value my friendships more than anything else. I still have good contact with my first real school friend, who's dad was a bobby and inspired me to: do the right thing. I also still have contact with friends from JL's, HAWK's amongst them, and from every unit that I ever served with, that's way more than a handful of 'real friends'. I don't know what more a person could wish for, fame and fortune and fair weather friends are not worth a toss ... where things get ever better till it's suddenly all over !

Arnie,

I have been known to say that: 'had I never spent a penny in a brothel I would be a rich man today'. Watching an old John Wayne film recently I laughed at one of his one liners: "I don't know why a pretty woman would want to get married and ruin one mans life, instead of making a lot of men happy". Like you, I am on my second wife, but I am also content to say that I have never broken my vow's. What I did as a single man, like you, in many corners of the world, was what any healthy, active, man, or woman, is entitled to do.

One night in Singapore, 1973, the Vietnam War still raging not far away. As part of 16 Airborne Brigade's 'presence in the area - Malaya', we were on R&R. Having had a rowdy night in Bugis Street and having spent a lot of lolly in bars and brothels, on our way home, a mate and I were chatted up by a stunning Goddess. He, Geordie, wanted to bang her first and so I waited outside the booth, one of many booths and twice as many Goddesses ! Inside a row started which quickly got out of hand. I kicked the door open to see what was going on, Geordie was being attacked with a knife, I managed to drop the attacker and we fled ... being chased by machete wielding Goddesses in high-heels and mini skirts and their pimps. Geordie explained that having gone to stroke her pussy he had found a pair of nuts and wanted his money back ... chatting to other comrades many said: he should have just turned it over and shagged it anyway, they always did .

[Arnie]

Hi Bill,
unfortunately I cant say the same about being faithful during the first marriage, but boy did I have a time of it. Nuff said!! The second is a different thing altogether.
I am surprised that your companion in Singapore did not know about the Katamites in Bugis Street. The Int Corps an allowance, not a very big allowance, to frequent girlie bars and Bugis Street to note and inform soldiers frequenting the Katamite brothels. Instructions were to 'chat' them coming out afterwards. The looks on most of the squaddies faces when informed he had just been with a man was 'priceless'. The reason given by the brass was that: it was in the middle of the Cold War and there were hundreds of known 'agents' in Singapore looking to recruit naive young soldiers who appear to have enjoyed themselves in the establishments under discussion. The naive ones probably wouldn't have access to classified information at that time, "but" - long term when they have reached higher ranks and are a long way from Singapore the subject is then fair game for blackmail. We didn't believe a word of it but any allowance, even a small one is better than nothing, plus we got to use the company cars to go out on the piss.
Believe it or not I passed my 5 yearly Security vetting interview, about 4 hours, even with my known peccadillos. Be honest and admit to everything with the thought in mind that the Interviewer definitely knows the answer before he asks the question. This proves that you probably can't be blackmailed, etc, etc., The Soviets tried the ploy with Indonesia's President Sukarno, when they produced miles and miles of film of him performing with prostitutes. The plan failed when he asked for copies of the films to give to his friends and mistresses and anyone else interested. He was proud of his performances
Incidentally, Bugis St, as Bugis St, is long gone. Remember they had Lee Kwan Yew as the leader in Singapore and he was a strict moralist. There is still a huge oriental market where it once was, called of all things Bugis Street Market. How did we get so far away from the Title of this topic??

Arnie