Our Motto

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Bill Bentley
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Our Motto

Postby Bill Bentley » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:02 am

A question for the historians amongst us:

Our Cap Badge, or our Motto as Johnny Marcelle used to call it, is the Prussian Eagle. Recently, while researching the history of the village in which I live, I came across some old documents which bear a stamp with the self same Prussian Eagle. Both of which are slightly different to the eagle shown on the old Preussian flag. (Position of the legs, Prussia: legs on the wings as opposed to ours and Amt Bredow, (which no longer exists), legs away from the wings.


My question is: How exactly and when did a Lancastrian Regiment adopt this symbol, Motto ?

And, as usual ... I can't get all three pictures to show in the same proportions ... would somebody please help :D thanks in advance.
Attachments
1420 H Hawk.jpg
Our very own 'Hawk'
1420 H Hawk.jpg (77.52 KiB) Viewed 3044 times
de_prus1.gif
Prussian State Flag
de_prus1.gif (6.9 KiB) Viewed 3048 times
Bredow.jpg
Former local authority stamp
Bredow.jpg (5.94 KiB) Viewed 3062 times

smudge077
Posts: 25
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Service Details: 1965 Catterick, Benghazi C Sqn & Regt Police
1966 Perham Down, HQ Sqn Recce Tp
1967 Paderborn, Cmd Sqn Recce Tp - 1970 Tidworth, C Sqn SHQ
1972 Sutton Coldfield, Army Selection Centre - 1973 Herford, C Sqn SHQ
1975 Cyprus, UN C Sqn SHQ - 1976 Warminster, A Sqn Cent Tp
1977 Manchester ACIO - 1979 Clifton DLOY HQ Sqn PSI
1980-85 Hohne D Sqn SHQ Tp, 2nd Tp Ldr, SQMS
1985-87 Catterick, C (BMT) Sqn SSM
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Re: Our Motto

Postby smudge077 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:08 pm

In 1798 the 14th Light Dragoons had the pleasure of escorting Princess Frederica of Prussia to London. She married Frederick Duke of York (2nd son of mad King George) in 1791. She became Royal Patroness of the Regiment who then went by the title 14th (Duchess of York's) Regiment of Light Dragoons. Renamed a few times it eventually became the 14th King's Hussars. It was at this stage when the eagle was made into a cap badge that the design became as we know it today. However, in the late 1960's the Regt adopted a new design for vehicle markings/signs etc (which was actually based on the 26th Hussars cap badge if they but knew it) and today people are using the bold/stocky KRH badge design when referring to 14/20H. Hope this is useful Bill. It's a good job our royal prince didn't marry an Australian.

Bill Bentley
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Re: Our Motto

Postby Bill Bentley » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:17 am

Many thanks for that Frank,

in accordance with the old saying 'the more I find out the less I know', I note that we were once called the 'Dutchess of York's which is a bit of an eye opener for me.
Q. open to anybody:
When, how and why did we become a Lancashire Regimennt ?

Arnie
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Re: Our Motto

Postby Arnie » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Bill,

take a trip into Spandau and from Fallenseer Platz take the Am Juliussterm, cross the bridge over the Havel and take the 1st left into the entrance road into the Zitadelle. Over the gateway into the Zitadelle is a much fancier, but exact copy of the 14th/20th King's Hussars cap badge.

Never got to visit there myself but saw it when I was doing a tour, courtesy of Google maps and the little yellow man to the left.

Good to see you are back and contributing.

Early I know but compliments of the season to you and your lovely wife.

Arnie :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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rick aindow
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Re: Our Motto

Postby rick aindow » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:28 pm

What's wrong with Aussies?

Cap badge with a kangaroo on it would look rather smart methinks :wink:
From Brisbane Queensland, beautiful one day, perfect the next

Arnie
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Service Details: 14/20H, 1959-1962 Hohne, Munchen Gladbach, 1962-1964 Benghazi, Cyprus and Tripoli. 1965-1967 7 Armd Bde Soltau.
Tranferred into Int Corps. 1967-1970 NI, 1970-1971 Singapore, 1971-1972 HK,1972-1974 NI, 1974-1976 NITAT(UK), 1976-1979 Berlin, 1979-1981 Preston. 1981 Retired
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Re: Our Motto

Postby Arnie » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:39 pm

Rick,

Lets keep it 'with the birds' an EMU would look just as good. But then the Regiment would have had to have been t'other side of the Pennines. E' ba gum, an E' mu. Don't worry I do cryptic crosswords.

Arnie :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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PINKY
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Re: Our Motto

Postby PINKY » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:41 pm

Hi there
B Sqn in Berlin had a copy made from the spandau citadel for the Sqn offices I recall in about 1986. Then c Sqn took over in name only - I wonder what happened to it ? Drac ? Johnny Morris ?? Any ideas?
Atb
Pinky

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kevman
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Re: Our Motto

Postby kevman » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:20 pm

HI Bill,


The 14th Dragoons were originally formed in Ireland but spent much of their time in Southern England. Much of the recruitment in the 1800,s came from other cavalry regiments but mainly recruited in the South. When the regiment amalgamated with the 20th (Nobody's Own) in 1922, this brought apquite an influx of Southern's. The Regiment then served at many places over the following years leading into WW2. In 1947 the Regiment became affiliated with the Duke of Lancaster's Own Yeomanry and provided permanent staff for them. They were presented with a new cavalry Guidon by HM the Queen at a magnificent parade in Manchester. When National Service was ended, this caused much anxiety with recruiting. The 14/20H, because of their affiliation with the DLOY, began earnest recruiting in Lancashire, a 'Well populated County'. They billed themselves as 'The Cavalry Regiment of Lancashire'....recruitment increased from two recruits per month to seventeen as a result. Henceforth the Regiment has always been called "Lancashire,s Cavalry Regiment...The Best Cavalry Regiment in the British Army'

Hope this helps with your query. The source is The Emperors Chambermaids by L Col L. BY Parts DSO.


Kev

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kevman
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Re: Our Motto

Postby kevman » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:26 pm

The latter part should have read 'Lt Col L. B. Oatts'


KeV

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kevman
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Re: Our Motto

Postby kevman » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:32 pm

Just as an extra, should you ever visit Berlin,apart from the Citadel at Spandau which portrays examples of the original Prussian Eagle, in the main Berlin Cathedral, all of the Prussian dynasty have their coffins on public display in the lower vaults. All of them have the Prussian Eagle embossed on the coffins....well worth viewing for our historical buffs.

Keep 'em Sharp

KeV

Bill Bentley
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Re: Our Motto

Postby Bill Bentley » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:24 pm

My thanks to one and all for filling in the gaps. I know the badge at the Zitadella in Spandau ... was once invited there for dinner by the Bürgermeister, seriously good medieval dining down in their former vaults. Although I have often been into the cathedral in Berlin (I lived around the corner for 10 years) I have never been down in their cellars ... a 'will do' for the future !

Thanks Arnie for even noticing that I had been absent for a while and our very best to you and Brenda, have a great beach party while we are grooming the sheep-skins preparing for minus temperatures. (Sheep don't need them any more, they're waiting to be thawed out and roasted). Actually we have decide to fast instead of feast this xmas, breaking the fast in time for a New Years party.

I now feel even better flying my, our regimental flag, knowing that the locals don't even recognise their own historical symbol, some while looking sideways at me ... bloody foreigner ! As an Anglo-Saxon I'm probably more kraut than them ... with a bit of Mick and Spick ... an absolute mongrel and proud of it :D !

For what it is worth I recently learned that 'Richard Lionheart' could not even speak english, only ever spent about six months in England, spent much of his time fighting anybody during the crusades and loved his home in France !
George the dragon slayer was probably a Roman and some other 'Great Britons' like King Arthur and Robin Hood were almost certainly not born in the British Isles ... so I'm in good company :lol: :lol: :lol: !

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Phil(Quassie)Baldwin
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Re: Our Motto

Postby Phil(Quassie)Baldwin » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:02 am

Pinky
A cast of that Hawk was mounted below the Flag masts in Muenster
Phil
Je n'oublierai pas

jsj
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Service Details: Joined at Wolverhampton April '52. Square bashing at Hadrian's Camp, Carlisle. Joined 14th/20th at Crookham and posted to Recce Troop. Regiment sailed from Liverpool on ss 'Lancashire' in Nov. '52 to Tripoli, Libya and on arrival at Sabratha posted to 'A' Squadron. Flew twice to Canal Zone in '53 & '54 for divisional motorcycle trial & div. exercises, both times returning on LST 'Snowdon Smith'. On demob in '54, posted to Staffs, Yeomanry at W'ton. Finally paid off in '56.
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Re: Our Motto

Postby jsj » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:43 pm

So! Supposing I wanted a blazer badge, how could I be sure that the one received would be a genuine, 14th/20th King's Hussars 'motto' from the glory years and not one that is, perhaps, well...err, not quite?
Syd.

dusty
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Re: Our Motto

Postby dusty » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:07 pm

Hi Bill,

Re the dragon slayer and national emblem, St George was a Palestinian Knight. OMG what were they thinking of.ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

Dusty.

tigger
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Re: Our Motto

Postby tigger » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:16 am

In regard to St George

the dragon (serpant) slayer it is now thought by historians to to be a large snake (probably a spitting cobra) the burning (breathing fire) sensation that affected the eyes when the projected venom hit the eyes.

The fly from when the cobra rears up and lunges (strikes) and the better part of its body leaves the ground

Mythology explained

Cheers Trev


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