Orwell and a bag of worms ...

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Bill Bentley
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Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Bill Bentley » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:05 am

George Orwell's book 1984 is turning out to have been a visionary piece of work. Not only is 'Big Brother' watching our every move but the concept of 'double thinking' is ever more present.

In Germany they use the expression 'Lugen Presse' which means that the press present a story in such a manner that you believe it, even though you know it to be untrue. When this untruth is said often enough the majority of the people are willing to stand up and fight, to the death, and to send their children into battle to fight for a cause 'they believe in', even though it has no true foundation.

Today Russia is all too often accused of being aggressive to its neighbours. For sure the European international boarders have changed a lot in our lifetime, but it is NOT Russia that has moved westwards it has been the West that has moved eastwards !

With this in mind I wanted to look at the history of Crimea, after all we have fought the Russians there before ... so, next stop wikipedia: Oh man you need a lot of time to try and understand who did what and why and I guess we all know that history is written by the victors and so is seldom unbiased and truly accurate.

Anyway this is an extract of what what Wikipedia states:

Immediate causes of the war[edit]
The immediate chain of events leading to France and Britain declaring war on Russia on 27 and 28 March 1854 came from the ambition of the French emperor Napoleon III to restore the grandeur of France. He wanted Catholic support that would come his way if he attacked Eastern Orthodoxy, as sponsored by Russia.[11]:103 The Marquis Charles de La Valette was a zealous Catholic and a leading member of the "clerical party," which demanded French protection of the Roman Catholic rights to the holy places in Palestine. In May 1851, Napoleon appointed La Valette as his ambassador to the Porte (the Ottoman Empire).[11]:7–9 The appointment was made with the intent of forcing the Ottomans to recognise France as the "sovereign authority" over the Christian population.[12]:19 Russia disputed this attempted change in authority. Pointing to two more treaties, one in 1757 and the 1774 Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca, the Ottomans reversed their earlier decision, renouncing the French treaty and insisting that Russia was the protector of the Orthodox Christians in the Ottoman Empire.

Two French Zouaves officers and one private
Napoleon III responded with a show of force, sending the ship of the line Charlemagne to the Black Sea. This action was a violation of the London Straits Convention.[11]:104[12]:19 Thus, France's show of force presented a real threat, and when combined with aggressive diplomacy and money, induced the Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid I to accept a new treaty, confirming France and the Roman Catholic Church as the supreme Christian authority with control over the Roman Catholic holy places and possession of the keys to the Church of the Nativity, previously held by the Greek Orthodox Church.[12]:20

Tsar Nicholas I then deployed his 4th and 5th army corps along the River Danube in Wallachia, as a direct threat to the Ottoman lands south of the river, and had Count Karl Nesselrode, his foreign minister, undertake talks with the Ottomans. Nesselrode confided to Sir George Hamilton Seymour, the British ambassador in Saint Petersburg:

[The dispute over the holy places] had assumed a new character—that the acts of injustice towards the Greek church which it had been desired to prevent had been perpetrated and consequently that now the object must be to find a remedy for these wrongs. The success of French negotiations at Constantinople was to be ascribed solely to intrigue and violence—violence which had been supposed to be the ultima ratio of kings, being, it had been seen, the means which the present ruler of France was in the habit of employing in the first instance.[12]:21

As conflict emerged over the issue of the holy places, Nicholas I and Nesselrode began a diplomatic offensive, which they hoped would prevent either Britain's or France's interfering in any conflict between Russia and the Ottomans, as well as to prevent their allying.

(There is a photo of:) Cornet assistant surgeon Henry Wilkin, 11th Hussars. He survived the Charge of the Light Brigade. Photographed by Roger Fenton. (On the Wikipedia link).

Nicholas began courting Britain by means of conversations with the British ambassador, George Hamilton Seymour, in January and February 1853.[11]:105 Nicholas insisted that he no longer wished to expand Imperial Russia[11]:105 but that he had an obligation to the Christian communities in the Ottoman Empire.[11]:105 The Tsar next dispatched a highly abrasive diplomat, Prince Menshikov, on a special mission to the Ottoman Sublime Porte in February 1853. By previous treaties, the sultan was committed "to protect the (Eastern Orthodox) Christian religion and its churches." Menshikov demanded a Russian protectorate over all 12 million Orthodox Christians in the Empire, with control of the Orthodox Church's hierarchy. A compromise was reached regarding Orthodox access to the Holy Land, but the Sultan, strongly supported by the British ambassador, rejected the more sweeping demands.[23]

The British and French sent in naval task forces to support the Ottomans, as Russia prepared to seize the Danubian Principalities.[11]:111–15


... And I thought that Napoleon was our enemy and I have to ask myself are the Turks (Ottomans) our best friends today ? It sure is a bag of worms, NOT something I should want to send my children into battle for !

It's the same with the recent chemical attack in Syria, there is NO evidence proving that Assad's troops used these chemicals, nonetheless America has ATTACKED A SOVERIGN STATE which is against all international laws. Wake me up somebody, am I having a nightmare ?

I am all for an armed forces that defends our nation and our peoples, but is the war that America is starting, and sadly our own government is supporting, in Syria, which is really aimed at Russia, one that will undoubtedly also involve Iran on their side, a war that we need/want to get involved in ? ? ?

Dare we even think of a continuation/expansion of the Afghanistan War thanks to MOAB ? ? ?

And a flare up of the Korean War in which China must become involved on their side ? ? ?

If America wants to fight a war or two or three ... without me brother !

Somebody once asked "Am I my brothers keeper ?"
All international legal eagles have repeatedly answered NO !

But, if you are aware that your kin is about to do something utterly stupid, morally unacceptable and dangerous to all of mankind, you are indeed obliged to let him know that he will NOT have your support, otherwise you are not only guilty by association of the CRIMES that he will/has already committed, you are guilty of not persuading/supporting you brother to find an alternative way.

For your own children's and your own grandchildren's sake get active, inform yourself and stand by your informed decision and be prepared to accept the consequences of your action/inaction.

In this case every silent person will be guilty of aiding and abetting the start of the Third World War !

In this case every silent person will be guilty of aiding and abetting the start of the Third World War !

To crown it all, what such a war will do to the fragile environment in which we live must be clear to everyone ...

Bill Bentley
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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Bill Bentley » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:14 am

I guess, when nobody else has an opinion that they want to share, I can chat with myself for a while :lol::

I have repeatedly heard Donald Trump state that "North Korea and Iran, because of their desire to have the Atom Bomb are a threat to the United States".

I have to ask myself: is this true ?

Firstly, having the Atom Bomb, as such, is entirely different to being able to deliver it to a specific target. And, even when a nation could theoretically do this, nobody other than the USA has ever done so. Oh yes, it was also the USA that very recently also dropped the MOAB, apparently, the strongest non-nuclear-bomb in the world, on yet another country - Afghanistan.

Even if North Korea or Iran had such a bomb and the ability to fire it on a rocket towards the USA: Am I supposed to understand that the US missile defense system, the US-Airforce and all of their allies could not intercept such a rocket attack long before it reached America ?

To reach the USA from Iran attacking rockets would have to fly over Europe and perhaps even Israel !
To reach the USA from North Korea attacking rockets would have to fly over China and Russia or Japan !

Mr Trump, sir, your assertion is BULLSHIT !

Even if North Korea and Iran had the Atom Bomb and the technical ability to deliver it, they could not be a threat to the United States of America !

Ah, so you meant America's friends, not America itself:

The UK, France and Israel all have their own missile defense systems, airforce's AND their own Atom Bombs and I am certain would be able to intercept any such rocket attack at themselves and utterly pulverize the attacking party, without America's help.

On the other side of the world, in the case of North Korea, China and Russia who also both have the Atom Bomb, would never allow such an attack to fly through their airspace, they would intercept it and pulverize the the perpetrator. Rockets fired at or over Japan would face the tens of thousands of US armed forces stationed there with their missile defense systems, airforce and naval bases. I do not doubt that they could and would intercept all such rockets and pulverize the perpetrator.

Should North Korea attack South Korea, a nation that is still at war with itself, they would still be facing massive missile defense systems and a formidable air force but because of the proximity some damage is likely. But Mr Trump that is NOT a danger to the United States of America and if your troops were not there it could NOT be a danger to them either.

I personally can't understand why such a large, powerful nation like the United States of America is so afraid of something so vague, so far away.

If America would withdraw its forces from all around the world and defend its own boarders, as is its good right, and let the rest of the world look after themselves, America would save countless billions of dollars, could easily afford a decent health service, perhaps lead the world in the search for environmentally friendly energy and perhaps truly become the envy of the world and so 'GREAT' again.

Mr Trump, sir, the option that you are following is just so WRONG that you and your nation will become hated and loose your prime position and perhaps destroy the rest of the world with your own downfall :( .

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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by 27 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:43 am

Bill.

The RAF dropped bigger bombs than the MOAB during WW2 they destroyed Bielefeld viaduct with them.

Bomber History - The Bielefeld Viaduct : Home
bomberhistory.co.uk/viaduct Cached
The Bielefeld Viaduct : Home The destruction of the Bielefeld viaduct WW 2's first use of the "Grand Slam" bomb March 14th 1945



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Bill Bentley
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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Bill Bentley » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:16 pm

Thanks for that link Tony,

looking at the photo's and the many craters they obviously tried very hard to destroy the viaduct. The question as to why, when they knew that an alternative route was in already operation, remains unanswered to this day.

"This weapon which became known as the 'earthquake bomb' has a truly staggering specification. It weighed 22,000lbs or 10000kg and was 26ft (8m) long with a maximum diameter of 5ft (1.53m). Its case was cast from a special chrome molybdenum steel and was filled with 9,975 lbs (4534kg) of Torpex explosive".

With regards to power, as opposed to size/weight: Modern explosives are much more POWERFUL than TNT and so a smaller bomb can still be more powerful.

I have just checked the Torpex/TNT ratios:
"Torpex (aka HBX, 41% RDX + 40% TNT + 18% Al + 1% wax)* 1.80 7440 1.30".
So, if I'm reading it right 4534 Kg's x 1.3 = 5894,2 Kg's of TNT.
The MOAB is said to have the equivalent of 11 tons of TNT, which makes it almost twice as powerful as the bomb used in WWII; all the same a monster bomb in its day !

The joke is that an explosion with more power does not increase its effectiveness in proportion to its size, as we all know a .22 can kill a person just as dead as a .50; the trick is to place your power accurately. Or as the martial artists say: Strength without control is ineffective. It's pretty much the same with explosives :wink: .

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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Fogetful » Mon May 01, 2017 5:19 pm

Bill, This is Arnie. I have had a dreadful time trying to login, but Paul has managed to get me logged on, hence my new Username is Fogetful. Yes, Fogetful. I missplelled Forgetful when I was re registering. Early on in this topic I was going to put in a submission, but couldn't.
I was going to say that I read somewhere that the reason for this MOAB was because the Ham-shanks remember how in Vietnam the VC went underground and lived and fought from underground cities. This MOAB is supposed to create such a blast it will bring the roof (only sand) down on an enemy. Apparently they have reliable????????? information that ISIS has gone underground. Of course we do believe US Intelligence don't we.
Anyway it's good to be back and again contributing my two pennyworth.

Forgetful Arnie :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Bill Bentley
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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Bill Bentley » Tue May 02, 2017 10:26 am

Bless you Arnie,

I had been wondering where my Stalwart had parked itself. I trust that you are well(ish), if you can remember that is. :lol: Then again it's not a bad thing to be forgetful when life is a pain in the butt. Looking forward to your informed and valued comments in due course.

With regards to the MOAB, you are dead right, like Tony's 'Earthquake Bomb', the poor bastards caught in the tunnels don't have a chance and we shall never, ever, learn how many really perished.

Just as a side note, these are bombs that can be dropped or delivered. In the first World War they, both sides, spent months tunneling towards each other and packed HUNDREDS OF TONS (not tonnes) of TNT underground and then detonated it to destroy the tunnels of the other side. The craters were more like valleys with insane proportions.

Sometimes, as the fronts moved back and forth the cache of TNT got 'lost or forgotten'. Since WWI they are still trying to locate possible sites of such bombs. In the meanwhile the TNT has become very unstable and is desperately volatile. There is, I believe in Belgium, a Farmhouse that has such a cache underneath it to this day, it is simply too dangerous to move it and could explode, all on its own, at any time. The farm owners know this, but their family have farmed this land for hundreds of years and refuse to leave, accepting their fate as and when.

Tunneling has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years. In the middle ages they even tunneled under castle walls and towers and made great fires underground to upset the earths stability causing the structures above to collapse.

In Turkey a farmer's well dried up, digging deeper to try and reach water he found a tunnel system. If memory serves, it's an underground city 80 meters deep with 13 levels and could have housed up to 30,000 people ! Somehow the builders knew the route of an underground river and dug two holes, one at the beginning of the complex the other at the other end. In doing this the river's current drew fresh air in at one end, which then ventilated the tunnel systems expelling the 'used air' through the other hole. They also had fresh water from the first hole and deposited their waste in the second which was then washed away. Nobody knows when it was built but it is thought that the early Christians ALSO sheltered there. The city itself is thought to be much older !

One has to ask oneself, what could possibly have frightened so many people so much that they went to such extremes to hide underground ??? :shock:

Also, just how clever were these people ? To know the route of a river from 80 meters above it. To be able to dig that deep. To understand the ground well enough to leave enough structure between each level so that it remained stable for thousands of years. To understand the airflow and light requirements so that people could live in there.

In the UK you have been arguing for decades about a new runway at Heathrow or somewhere else and the Krauts made the decision to build their new airport Schönefeld but can't build what their own planners planned and are years behind schedule and it has already cost 3 times the original quotation.

In China they can build a city for 50,000 people, 10 school and four hospitals with all the required infrastructure in SIX MONTHS ! My tip ... don't pick a fight with them !

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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Fogetful » Tue May 02, 2017 2:53 pm

Bill, seems a fascinating topic and I am glad to be back on the site contributing my thoughts at least.
Boy have I missed it.
You can still contact me on the old email address, then I can give you the new one, because guess what, I have forgotten yours. They don't call me "Fogetful" for nothing.

Arnie

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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by 27 » Thu May 04, 2017 9:34 am

https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/ ... yhs-newtab

Correct Bill they did leave some oversized holes :D :D :D



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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Bill Bentley » Fri May 05, 2017 7:17 pm

Fantastic photo's Tony,

have you been there yourself ?

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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Arnie » Sat May 06, 2017 5:13 am

Bill, in your last BIG post above you mentioned the ability of the Chinese to build cities in next to no time. Can't help equating them to ants.
When I was there in 1971, looking over the border at any spot, possibly with the exception Lo Wu (where the Canton/Kowloon railway line went into China) and Sha Tau Kok (fishing village at the NE end of the border) it was mainly paddy fields. Look at Google Earth today and see hundreds, if not thousands of high-rise buildings. The same can be said for the New Territories (NT). There is a town in the NT, well city actually, called Fanling, where the British Army established a golf club with 56 holes. Three whole golf courses! In the 60s the GOC in HK decreed that the Chinese could join. Before long they are on the Committee, followed shortly after, by controlling the Committee. No they didn't kick the Army out, they just raised the membership fees, pricing the Army out.
We, and I reckon anybody from the Regiment who did HK, possibly would have frequented an establishment in Fanling called 'The Better 'Ole. Fantastic food and atmosphere. Long gone when I went back there in 200? I found it gone, to be replaced by hundreds of high-rise buildings.
Back to ants and military matters. I think I have said it before on the site, when I was a FINCO (Field Intelligence NCO) there with Paddy Wilson we carried Browning Hi-Power pistols with four rounds in the magazine, with the magazine full it gets heavy you know. We reckoned that with the possibility of millions of Chinese coming over the border we would be in our L/Rs down to Kai Tak and four bullets each would allow us to hi-jack a plane to get the hell out of there. The CCA had a standing army of 2 million, an armed militia of 10 million (allowed to take their weapons home), and an un-armed militia of a 100 million. So when opposing Generals see on the map a mountain range with the CCA on one side and a long, long way round it, he thinks he has time to organize his defences. No way, the CCA dismantle needed large, heavy equipment, down to either man-handling size or team handling size and hump it over the mountain overnight like ants. As the French found out at Dien Bien Phu, and the UN Forces in Korea to their detriment.
Briefing to soldiers opposing a potential CCA attack: there will be no casualties because CCA plan for 1,000,000 soldiers to surrender the first day, 2,000,000 the second day and you all surrender on the third day because you CANNOT cope with that many prisoners all at once. Not with the Geneva Protocols in place.

Arnie :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Bill Bentley
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Re: Orwell and a bag of worms ...

Post by Bill Bentley » Sun May 07, 2017 5:27 am

Arnie,

I sent you an e-mail, hope it has arrived. Great to see you back on this site !

Getting down to the nitty gritty: Ant's, yes I can see and understand your logic. Yes you lucky b......'s who got out to HK, whilst some of us had to hold back a hoard of Jock's in Tidworth, don't remember having any problems with sunburn there. That, HK, was the only posting that I was ever envious of :( .

Ants are brilliant, as are termites. The underground city in Turkey resembles a termites mound, with the exception that it's underground as opposed to the mound being largely above ground. Termites use the wind in the same way that the underground city used the water, to cause suction, to ventilate and so make life possible deep inside the building-complex. By constantly raising and lowering their chimney-stacks termites adjust the airflow and so acclimatize, very accurately, the temperatures and air content, using the specific weight of certain gasses and over-flows, like a dam, to achieve the required gas concentrations. (They don't just use air in the simple way that we do). Bees do much the same inside their hives (if the bee-keeper allows them to that is). One should not underestimate the collective genius of the little people, ants, termites, bees or the Chinese !

While America and Europe have been trying to bomb the world into submission the Chinese have been giving financial support to many countries, especially in Africa, and elsewhere just buying up great swathes of ultra valuable properties world wide. Were they to suddenly sell their properties they could cause the total collapse of the western financial system and we would be fucked, no need for endless wars ! Like ants, termites and bees, the Chinese function 'for the benefit of the whole' and accept personal losses as their fate, something that we in the western world seem unable to accept.

Merkel, Europe, is disgusted that Turkey wants to reintroduce the death sentence and with her other ultra European fanatics want to try to give Turkey a hard time because of it. Now let's take a case in point: The guy, in the USA, that recently posted on facebook his execution of an entirely innocent old man who was just walking down the street and also claimed to have killed many others. Had he not later killed himself, had he been caught the USA, Europe, the western world would have spent many millions of dollars, euro's pounds, catching and prosecuting him, and he would have got a life sentence, and he would appeal, and he would be psychologically studied by a dozen idiot doctors, and he could have lived to become 80++ and then get released, because he would, presumably, no longer be a danger to the public and he would get a free flat and a social worker to feed him and wipe his arse etc. etc. etc.. In China they would have had a five minute process and spent 5 x 30 pence on bullets and ended the saga there and then.

To free the world of dangerous scum, for the benefit of all (financial savings, safety for the public and the police, leaving doctors and social workers free to help the public instead of helping evil-nut-cases) is much cleverer !

My God, in America they have just spent millions trying to stop the authorities from using an 'almost out of date drug' to execute several EVIL prisoners, who have been on 'death row' for decades, it's an utterly perverted logic ! Would the out of date drugs have made the dead man poorly ? Who needs drugs anyway ? Just pump 2 liters of air into his veins and he's dead in seconds, cost 1 used needle and a reusable bicycle pump :shock: .

My point is, everyone is moaning that we need more money for education, the NHS, pensioners, the police, the army, road repairs etc. etc. but we have to respect the so called 'human rights' of murdering scum and perverts. Well children you will just have to make up your minds, execute the baddies or have ever longer waiting lists for everyone and everything. And while we struggle with our consciences the Chinese are racing ahead :lol: :lol: :lol:

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